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Does Schrodinger Cat work on Deal or No Deal?

I was pondering Schrödinger’s Cat while watching “Deal or No Deal”.  Now, it occurs to me at this point that the readers of this journal are more likely to need an explanation of what “Deal or No Deal” is, rather than any enlightenment as to the mysteries of Schrödinger.  Nonetheless, I intend to assume the reader has intrinsic knowledge of both topics – go ‘Google’ if you don’t!

My ponderings lay not with the misguided folk who are convinced they have a plan to ‘beat the banker’ because the box they have bears the same number as their birthday, but rather with the possible complexities of what I will call Schrödinger’s Cash.    

So, let us imagine the way things happen at the moment.  Before the show just one person is responsible for putting the monetary values, from 1p to £250,000 (substitute your own currency depending on where you live) into the boxes numbered 1 to 22.  At this point he is the only person in the universe who knows which value is in which box – and of course during game play selecting the box and accepting the bankers deal is simply statistics.  Box ‘n’ has always, and will always, contain value ‘x’ and every contestant has a 1 in 22 chance of having any particular value in their box.  It doesn’t matter in which order the boxes are opened, these facts will never change and the value ‘y’ in the contestants box will always be the value ‘y’.

Now imagine, if before the show, the 22 boxes do not have a number in their initial state (this may be the case, I don’t know – but I doubt it) so all the boxes are identical, blank and indistinguishable from one another.  The boxes are lined up on a long shelf, in a sealed room where only one person at a time is permitted to enter.  The first person still has the responsibility to put monetary values into the boxes at random and then seal each box.   Once this is done, he leaves the room and a second person enters.  Then, at random, the second person randomly allocates each box a number so the boxes now have numbers from 1 – 22. 

In my view, all these boxes now have Schrödinger’s Cash inside them.  No one in the universe now knows which value (state) any numbered box contains until the box is opened.

However, this now takes my (very) limited understanding of Erwin Schrödinger’s hypothesis beyond breaking point. But that’s just me I hope.  Undoubtedly someone reading this has far superior understanding and can offer further comment on the following points.

Firstly, each box has 22 possible states – and by thought experiment this logic can be extended to an infinite amount of possible states in an infinite amount of boxes were used.  However, once one box is opened and its value (state) ascertained the other states do not change (as with Schrödinger’s Cat) because there are an infinite number of boxes – as infinity minus 1 is still infinity.   Even with a less than infinite number of boxes (lets say 22) once one box is opened the other boxes still have unknown (albeit diminished optional) states.

Now lets consider a variation.  None of the boxes have to be opened in order to change all of their states to a known value.  All that needs to happen is that ‘person one’ talks to ‘person two’ and says “I put the values in the boxes left to right along the shelf in this order…..” whereby  ‘person two’ says “I put the numbers on the boxes left to right in the this order….”.  Now, so long as neither were lying,  person one and person two both know the state of every box but none have been opened.  And to get round the possibility of either person being a scallywag, each person video tapes their time in the sealed room with the boxes so that it clearly shows what they did, but they do not show this recording until they want to collapse the possible states of each box to a known value.

Finally, does this new method of loading the boxes with Schrödinger’s Cash change the statistics of the game?  I doubt it, but does it make me wonder how you would explain to Noel Edmonds (substitute your country’s quizmaster) that the final two boxes both contained (say) 10p and £250,000.

 

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  • Asked by wutty
  • on 2009-11-10 00:38:13
  • Member status
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Categories: Our universe.

Tags: tv, Statistics, quantum, Schrdinger, SchrdingersCat, gameshow.

 

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lav15h says:

I would very much like someone who has access to the necessary equipment to perform the following suggested experiment or let me know if this has already been done and what the results were.

I should apologise in advance for my lack of proper scientific terminology as I have had no formal physics training other than the thought experiments I have posed to myself and reading a few books on physics and astronomy and articles online.

Firstly, I understand that when light is shone through two slits it causes a pattern of light and dark on the screen behind thus suggesting that light is a wave.  

Secondly,  when the rate at which the light is emitted is slowed down so it can only be a photon(?) at a time there is still an interference pattern.  Suggesting the photon goes through both slits at the same time and somehow interferes with itself….giving birth to quantum physics and a whole lot of outlandish theories (I have an even more “outlandish” theory myself)

Finally, it gets even stranger, when any kind of device is put in place to measure or count which slit each light particle is going through, the pattern changes to diffuse. At last being what you would expect to see from individual particles. 

The strange part is, of course is how can just the act of observing cause a diffuse pattern. If the measuring device is switched off it goes back to bands of light and dark. 

I hope I have this reasonably correct so far ?

SO…..what would happen if the device that measured which slit photons went through was powered by some kind of voltaic cell that was placed where the light bands are. 

That is to say only when the light was making the banded pattern would the power be sufficient to switch on the device measuring which slit the light particles went through….which will then make the pattern diffuse….which will switch off the machine…….which will then make the pattern banded……which will switch on the machine…..ad infinitum. 

This seems to cause the same paradox as Schroedinger’s Cat but a lot easier to test and more animal friendly…..a bit of Hawkins style humour there…haha. 

If this is the first time someone has suggested this and it does prove useful in any way I would very much like to make my parents proud and have this referred to as the “McTavish Twist”.   The first part being my surname and “twist” because I love twists in both science and cocktails !!!  Both are refreshing and alleviate the boredom..

One suggested result is that the measuring device switches on and off at the speed of its slowest component. If there was nothing slowing down its rate of switching then it would be very interesting to measure the number of times it changes state per second ?  Although I imagine this may take some clever machinery indeed as the resulting figure should be the smallest possible measure of time.  A “universal tick” ?  (maybe we can call it a “McTavish Tick” or am I getting greedy !!).  I imagine this should link mathematically to the maximum speed of light in some way.

Another possible outcome is that the machine will not switch on even though the light level appears sufficient to power it.  This could happen because it is only really at half power…..being half in the diffuse pattern (that is to say half in another state/universe).  It may be interesting to note where the “tipping point” is ?  Does it really work out to be exactly one half or does it lean more towards one state ?  Again this ratio may link mathematically to another well known number.

I imagine the actual results of the experiment will lead as usual to more questions.  I would very much like confirmation of the results so my own thought experiments move on to new questions too. 

Thank you sincerely for your attention.

Ian McTavish

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Tags: tv, Statistics, quantum, Schrdinger, SchrdingersCat, gameshow.

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posted on 2011-12-12 01:14:30 | Report abuse


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