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Can Convex side of the Moon Crescent tell us the direction?

The convex side of the moon cresent indicates the lighted aspect facing the Sun, which means it points to the direction where the Sun is.

Can we then presume that the Convex side points to the West in night and the East in Early Mornings before sunrise. (Provided the moon is in Crescent phase of course!!)

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  • Asked by vinigma
  • on 2010-02-19 16:29:12
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Last edited on: 2010-02-19 16:51:06

Categories: Our universe.

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Paul_Pedant says:

Don't need to presume: go look! I've never caught the moon looking in the wrong direction yet!

Apart from due East/West at sunrise/sunset, if you watch the moon all night it points in the right direction where the sun is below the horizon too.

If there is no moon, it's because it can't come out tonight - it's waxing!

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posted on 2010-02-23 23:45:08 | Report abuse


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nfranklin says:

One problem is that the moon points in the opposite direction in the Southern hemisphere.  The sun cannot bere in the Eat and the West at the same time.

I was taught Ci s for crescent, D for diminishing but it is the wrong way round because the moon is loony (luna .  It is not loony in New Zealand, butnear the equator it lies on its back

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posted on 2010-02-24 20:47:57 | Report abuse

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Jon-Richfield says:

 

You are joking, yes???!  You can go from Mercury to Pluto, but you still will see (with a suitably power telescope of course) that (SURPRIZE!) The side that the sun illuminates the side of the moon turned to the sun... You will find from wherever you are on Earth, that the waxing moon is visible in the early evening (even in the afternoon, at that) but not in the morning, and that its "back" is towards the west.  The waning moon is just the other way round: it is visible in the morning and its "missing slice" is towards the west. 

OK, I see what you mean if you mean that the C becomes a D and vice versa, but it is just an example of how dangerous a mnemonic can be. I love mnemonics  myself, but they are mostly good when you understand how they work. I now realise that you do, but what I don't yet get is this bit of the moon being "on it's back" near the equator!!!??? What the stardust does that mean? Which way is down? Or does it flip when you cross the equator? Sorry man, I like to side with fellow-southerners, but unless I misunderstand you completely, NZ must have the goofiest moon since green cheese!

Note that the celestial equator to a good approximation passes through the moon at right angles to its north/south axis. This means that by tracing the axis of the moon to the nearest horizon will give you a pretty good idea of North in the Northern hemisphere, or South in the Southern hemisphere. Useful to know if you can't recognise (or see)  Polaris or Crux.

Happy navigation!

 

Jon

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posted on 2010-03-02 18:56:59 | Report abuse

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Paul_Pedant says:

Of course the Sun can be in the East and the West at the same time!!! It depends on where the observers are standing.

Imagine you are looking down on the Earth from a million miles above the North pole, and your buddy is looking down from a million miles above the South pole. And it's noon in London, so the Greenwich meridian is directly facing the Sun. The half of the Earth facing the Sun is lit, and the other half is dark.

If Linda is in London, the Sun is overhead. If Zack is in New Zealand, the Sun is out of sight behind the earth (under Zack's feet). If Imogen is in India, the Sun is just setting in HER West, and if Carl is in California, the very SAME Sun is just rising in HIS East. From your vantage point above the North pole, you can see all those observers at once. (So can your buddy, except that you see them L-I-Z-C anticlockwise, and he sees them L-I-Z-C clockwise.) That's why we have time zones. But the point is, East/West are earth-relative, and day/night are Sun-relative, and the Earth rolls round its axis in the warm sunlight at 15 degrees per hour.

The Moon is also exactly half-illuminated all the time. When it is on the half of its orbit on the Sun side of earth, most of the illuminated bit is hidden from us by the moon itself, and everybody on earth gets rotated past the visible crescent bit every 24.8 hours (because the moon advances in its orbit a little every day); and they see that crescent in daylight because the moon is on the same side of the earth as the sun is. At some stage the crescent becomes a sliver, nothing, and then a new crescent on the other side.

Conversely, when the moon is in the part of its orbit nearer the outer side of the earth, we can see the part of the moon that is completely illuminated, so it is close to being full, but we can only see that state from the dark (i.e. night) side of earth.

Get hold of a torch (as the Sun), an orange (draw on a few countries and the poles), and a small potato. Put the moon in various phases of its orbit, shine torch sunlight on them both, then for each phase, rotate the earth and visualise what you can see from each country on it during a day.

I mentioned how the moonlight shines on the snow at home in Scotland, to a guy I met when I was working in California, and he said "Hey, have you got a moon there, too?".

What messes my head is that, in the southern hemisphere, the Sun rises in the East and goes round the North of you during the day before it sets in the West. And you have Christmas in June, of course.

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posted on 2010-03-05 22:51:36 | Report abuse

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Paul_Pedant says:

Oh, I get the bit about the Equator and "Lies on its back" now. It's an illusion caused by the orientation of the observer. Imagine a half-moon, 7 days after new moon (therefore waxing), and viewed at Sunset.

If I look at the moon in London (Lat 52 N) and I am standing up, then my head/feet are on a fairly North/South axis and I am in line with the Moon's north/south axis. (If I stand on my hands or lay down sideways, my brain probably retains its perception of direction because we do that a lot.) The moon appears in my southern sky about 40 deg above the horizon, I am facing South (or I won't be looking at the moon), and the illuminated side is on my Right (West) becase that's where the sunlight is coming from.

If I look at the same moon in Auckland NZ (Lat 37 S) and I am standing up, then my head/feet are fairly North/South but I am now in line with the moon's axis in the South/North direction. It's 12 hours later (because it's now sunset in NZ), the moon appears in my Northern sky about 50 deg above the horizon, so I am facing North, and the illuminated side is now on my Left (but still West).

However, if I am on the equator at sunset and looking at the same moon, it will be almost completely overhead. That is neither North nor South nor East nor West - it's just UP.

So I can just put my face UP and slowly spin through 360 degrees on my feet, and I can make that moon lay on its back or front or either side. But whatever I do, the sun will still be in the West, and the illuminated face of the moon will still point to it.

Subsidiary question then. If the natural way to see the Moon in Capetown or Auckland is with the South pole at the top, is there an equivalent optical illusion to the "Old Man in the Moon", and what is it called? And why have I never noticed the "wrong" orientation of the moon in Australian films - are they all made in Hollywood?

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posted on 2010-03-06 11:13:48 | Report abuse


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