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Perception of flickering LEDs when moving eyes

Many modern cars use high brightness LEDs for their rear lights. They tend to be rapidly switched on and off for 'normal intensity' and fully on for 'high intensity' when the brakes are also applied. When driving behind these cars I find the LED lights very distracting - whenever I move my eyes from one spot to another the lights appear to leave a trail of very bright dots caused by their rapid switching. Normal incandescent bulbs do not look like this, nor do the LED car lights when they at full intensity. Domestic items with LED displays also tend to do the same thing (I noticed it on a washing machine today). I also see it to a lesser extent with fluorescent lights.

My daughter also sees the flickering car lights when moving her eyes, but my son does not, and neither do other people I've asked. I understand why LEDs are rapidly switched in this way, and why they appear as a string of dots when I move my eyes - my question is why do some people apparently not see the effect? Is our perception somehow different? I have read reports that the brain 'switches off' visual processing when the eyes are flicked from one point to another - could this 'switching off' vary from one person to another?

 

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  • Asked by jagged
  • on 2010-09-10 10:13:48
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Categories: Human Body.

Tags: Eyes, LED, Vision, perception, flicker, visual.

 

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petethebloke says:

I think the answer is 'yes' people do have different tolerance of flickering or flashing images. I can't explain why, though.

For a few years I worked as a computer support bloke and I must have sat in front of hundreds of monitors per year. I would find it immediately irritating if the screen was refreshing at 60Hz (we're talking CRT screens here) and I would have to switch to 72Hz, which I found comfortable. It always amazed me that most users were totally unaware of the flickering even when I pointed it out.

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Tags: Eyes, LED, Vision, perception, flicker, visual.

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posted on 2010-09-10 15:43:59 | Report abuse


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Jon-Richfield says:

Like Pete, I do not have a detailed explanation for you. However from personal experience I think that there are at least two or three effects at work.

Slightly to my surprise, neither of you mentioned that the effect, especially in terms of irritation, is at its worst when one sees it from the corner of one's eyes. Although I never have been more than mildly irritated by such screens, such irritation as I did experience tended to be because I would move my eyes, possibly to look down at paper, and as soon as I moved them there would be the flicker from the corners of my eyes, distracting my attention and thereby becoming irritating. Once I got used to it, though it certainly was not fun, it became more easily bearable.

I suspect that it is not so much that your son has different eyes, as that his mental processing is not so badly distracted by the effect. Mind you, I have a reservation on that point, as you will see in the next paragraph.

Now, one of the main differences between that part of your retina that receives the part of your view on which you focus, and the part that deals with peripheral vision, is that the light receptors dealing with peripheral vision tend to be less densely packed, and to have fewer cones and more rods. Accordingly they are more sensitive to low intensities of light and less sensitive to colour and detail.  I suspect that accordingly they can detect flicker (change in intensity) more sensitively than light receptors in the centre of the field of vision. However it also is a fact that men tend to have poorer peripheral vision than women. That is why I have my reservations on your son's eyes being identical to your daughter's.

The other effect has to do with the way that your eyes and brain deal with moving events. There are fundamental reasons why you cannot do that without reference to external visual clues plus your internal calculations of how you are moving and how other things are moving. To keep detailed account of such factors, your visual system largely ignores what is going on during your own movements and rationalises what you see in terms of your own control of your eyes. For a quick demonstration of the difference between what you see when your eyes are under your mental control, and when not, look at something on your screen and move your head and eyes in various ways. Everything should look consistent to you. The screen should look in focus, and stable in position.

However if you put a finger against the outer edge of your eyelid, and gently push your eyeball out of position, you will see an immediate shift in the view that eyeball presents to your brain. Specifically your to eyes will no longer see things as being in the same position and you will get obvious double vision. There are many such effects. Looking at a television set, and making suitable buzzing noises with your teeth barely parted, or rattling your tongue with a violent "rrr" noise, you can make your eyeballs vibrate and the television image will dance about wildly.

A more interesting effect based on that principle (an effect that is inclined to give some people instant nausea) is if you use binoculars, especially looking at distant bright lights in the dark. Without binoculars all the lights look perfectly stable, but with binoculars, if you shift the field of view even slightly, each light begins to leave visual trails. Incandescent lights leave more or less continuous trails, whereas fluorescent lights and LEDs leave strings of dots, or at least strings of beads. Similarly, if you take an LED device and move it rapidly in front of your eyes in pitch dark you will see that it leaves an impression of separated images. And if you ever have danced under strobe lights, you will have noticed that it is almost impossible to follow trajectories of motions. For example I cannot catch a ball in such light. Some of these effects seem to me to explain some of your puzzles, but feel welcome to discuss the matter further.

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Tags: Eyes, LED, Vision, perception, flicker, visual.

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posted on 2010-09-10 17:38:14 | Report abuse

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jagged says:

Thanks Jon and Pete for your replies.

The effect I'm talking about is not the flickering of a CRT monitor when seen either directly or in peripheral vision - although I do tend to notice such things as well. What I am asking about is related to Jon's description of the trail of images seen when moving an LED device in the dark, or looking at fluorescent lights through shaky binoculars - except that the objects are effectively stationary and my gaze is moving about. Incandescent vehicle lights leave a 'normal' trail whereas LED rear lights make a dotted/dashed trail when I move my eyes from one part of the road ahead to another - I find the trail very noticeable and distracting, as does my daughter, but my son and others can't understand what we are talking about and apparently don't see the effect at all. 

I'm puzzled as to why some people don't see the effect - it's clear to me why I see it. Having an enquiring mind, I have used the effect since I was a child to discover which light sources are inherently flickering, to visualise the scanning system in TV sets, etc. In fact I vividly remember an old cinema which used to have some long red neon lights around its exterior - by deliberately scanning my eyes around I could see that the light not only flickered but also that each pulse was made up of a large number of small distinct beads of light that were not perceptible when my eyes were not moving.

I would imagine that my daughter would also have been able to see this, but not my son - the question is, why?

 

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Tags: Eyes, LED, Vision, perception, flicker, visual.

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posted on 2010-09-10 23:20:26 | Report abuse


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Jon-Richfield says:

Jagged,

your reply certainly was helpful, but it also presented a more confusing picture, if you don't mind my putting it that way. Please note that whatever I say here is the purest speculation. As should become plain when you read on, I really do not know what is happening in your visual perception.

It is perfectly possible that there is a genetic component that either your daughter inherited, but not your son, or that both inherited, but only one exhibited, a genetic effect called penetrance. The question is whether the physical effect is in your eye, or in your brain. If it is in your eye, then you and your daughter probably have more acute sensitivity to brightness, and more rapid accommodation to changes of brightness. Several kinds of tests might be tried to determine your acuteness of colour discrimination and brightness discrimination and low-light vision. But I leave all such initiatives to you and any interested professionals at your disposal.

If on the other hand the effect is in your brain, then what it suggests to me in my ignorance is that you have the same physical ability to detect flicker as any other healthy person. However, as flicker and persistent visual trails both are confusing, most people have strong innate abilities to filter them out of their conscious perception or suppress them somehow. I get the impression that you and your daughter might be better at perceiving such effects, than filtering them out.

Whether to regard this as more of an asset or a liability, I leave to you. Happily it is at worst no disability and may be an actual advantage under some circumstances.

Personally however I suspect that it is neither one nor the other, but simply a personal quirk.

In either case, the effect is interesting, so do let us know if you discover any more about it.

Go well,

Jon

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Tags: Eyes, LED, Vision, perception, flicker, visual.

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posted on 2010-09-10 17:38:14 | Report abuse


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huug says:

It might have something to do with the way you move your eyes and where your attention is. If you move your eyes to the right the trail of dots will appear briefly to the left. Your son might not be aware of this because his attention is on the other side. Anyway these flickering leds have been put to use in various diplays where a string of leds projects an image or text. There are clocks, frisbees, wands and even devices you can put in the weel of your bike to display a message. You might want to pick up one of these inexpensive gagets for fun and do some experiments yourself.

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Tags: Eyes, LED, Vision, perception, flicker, visual.

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posted on 2010-09-12 13:23:38 | Report abuse


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macla91 says:

Everybody, as you may know, has a blind spot where the are no rod or cone cells present in their eyes. The younger you are the smaller the blind spot. The size of this spot also varies from person to person. 

The reason the LED's appear to flicker is due to the blind spot moving over the light meaning you cannot see the light for that split second. As the light moves back into vision you have completed the flickering cycle. This is the reason that you see the flickering, and maybe your younger son doesn't.

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Tags: Eyes, LED, Vision, perception, flicker, visual.

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posted on 2010-09-12 22:12:30 | Report abuse

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Jon-Richfield says:

Mac, I am sorry to say that I am so deeply sceptical of that explanation as to be positively dismissive. I do accept that one can miss seeing something which happens to fall in the blind spot in one's vision, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the flashing of LEDs and other intermittent lights in the dark.

 

In case you doubt this, ask yourself why it only works with flashing lights and not with say, incandescent lights or flames. Also, how does it explain the fact that if you move an LED readout smoothly and rapidly in pitch dark, you see clear, regular, and vivid repetitions of the readout image. If your device has a continuous output, all you see is a smudge. And what about the ingenious LED devices that create visible messages when moved in the dark, but not when stationary? I cannot see my blind spot creating complex messages for my benefit!

 Sorry, the idea is creative, but I really do not think it is in the slightest degree supportable.

 Cheers,

 Jon

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Tags: Eyes, LED, Vision, perception, flicker, visual.

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posted on 2010-09-13 08:32:17 | Report abuse


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