Advanced search

Answers


When do we begin to die?

I saw a post today wherein the poster made a statement that we start dying from the moment we are born.  Surely this is not true.  I wouldn't think that biologically speaking the act of being born is anything special -- at that point we've been developing for 9 months or so and the only thing different is that we're breathing and eating on our own.

So, I'm interested in an actual scientific answer "when DO we begin to die"?  Looking forward to reading the replies.

 

sssss
 (no votes)

submit an answer
  • Member status
  • none

Categories: Human Body.

Tags: death, Aging, birth.

 

Report abuse


7 answer(s)


Reply

petethebloke says:

Good question. I was always happy to accept the rather gloomy idea that we are dying as soon as we live, but you must be right in what you say.

The pessimistic view - we live, we die, therefore while living we are dying - is merely a simplification drawn from analogy. You drop something, it falls, it's falling, it lands. QED. But not quite QED, because if you have to lift it first some of the inevitability is taken out of the process.

The perfectly healthy person who dies in an accident when 20 years old did not spend his life dying. Nor did he spend his life on a comfortable bell curve where living and growing gave way to decline and demise.

Of course, all I've done so far, is agree with you. Dying is a complicated matter and there have been a few threads here about it recently. There are also some respected books on the subject e.g. How We Live and Why We Die: the secret lives of cells by Wolpert & Jean.

sssss
 (2 votes) average rating:5

Tags: death, Aging, birth.

top

posted on 2010-10-27 09:38:14 | Report abuse


Reply

MikeAdams#367 says:

I think this is a question of semantics rather than science. Define what the term 'begin to die' means and it will probably provide the answer.

sssss
 (2 votes) average rating:5

Tags: death, Aging, birth.

top

posted on 2010-10-27 12:27:03 | Report abuse


Reply

Cameroneff says:

Yes, the definition of 'die' is important.  I was looking at it this way... if we rewind the first nine months of our existence in the womb, back to the start, we are clearly not 'dying' yet... one cell, two cells, four cells, etc. If after the millionth cell was created some of the first set had 'died', then yes, that does provide an answer of a sort.  So the question "when does the first cell in our body die" would be one way of phrasing that question.  But it's not really what I meant although I would be interested in that answer too.

It appears I don't know enough about biology (physics major, I'm afraid) to even phrase my question properly, so I need some help there too.  But I will think some more about my question and see if maybe I can phrase it better

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: death, Aging, birth.

top

posted on 2010-10-27 14:04:25 | Report abuse

Reply

MikeAdams#367 says:

During development some cells *need* to die. Your hands start out as a blob, with no fingers. In order to create the fingers the cells in between need to die off, allowing the fingers to separate. 

sssss
 (3 votes) average rating:4.33

Tags: death, Aging, birth.

top

posted on 2010-10-27 15:07:53 | Report abuse

Reply

Jon-Richfield says:

You have had some very good answers, so good that I have nothing to add to them on their own terms.  As several of them rightly point out, it is a question of semantics. The question as it was posed is too ambiguous to be meaningful.

By way of analogy, suppose someone asked you as a physicist when a material is at its strongest? It sounds perfectly simple, until one stops to ask oneself what is being asked. In fact if a layman were to ask you that and you began to explain why you could not answer it meaningfully off the cuff, he would surely accuse you of obstructive doubletalk. The question obviously is perfectly obvious.

Your insisting on raising questions of temperatures, hardness, toughness, work of fracture, fibre strength versus bulk strength, tensile strength versus compressive or shear strength, you name it, is patently malicious obtuseness!

So, if dying is the process of becoming less alive, then from some points of view we are constantly dying every time our skin sheds a new cell into our epidermis or an erythrocyte sheds its nucleus. And as someone pointed out, the dying of cells on a large scale is a vital component of the process of our metamorphosis, which begins quite early in embryogenesis, and does not meaningfully stop before senile decay sets in.

Broadly speaking it is simple to choose a point before which we cannot usefully be said to be alive, and it certainly is easy to agree to within a few minutes at most when someone dies from having been comprehensively squashed by a falling boulder, but whether we can define "living" and "dying" for the ordinary man in the street or in a hospital bed, is open to discussion, and not necessarily useful discussion.

One thing I do guarantee you though, is that many alternative and hypothetically rational definitions are possible, if not necessarily profitable out of context.

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: death, Aging, birth.

top

posted on 2010-10-27 16:43:56 | Report abuse


Reply

StewartH status says:

Every time a cell divides a copy of the DNA is made. Every time DNA is copied the sequences at both ends of chromosomes, called telomeres, get shorter. When the telomeres reach a critical length the cell no longer divides and therefore cannot reproduce. This is a natural part of aging.

Also there are many ways in which DNA in a given cell may be damaged. This damage can accumulate as it is passed on to daughter cells and they too suffer DNA damage. This is one of the reasons that we have lifetime limits on radiation exposure ( radiation causes damage to DNA).

So, a line of cells does age and there is a limit to the number of times that the DNA in the line can be copied. It is, therefore, reasonable to say that from the moment a cell divides the organism containing that cell starts to die.

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: death, Aging, birth.

top

posted on 2010-10-27 19:08:36 | Report abuse


Reply

ecstatist says:

PARADIGMS.

GENETICIST: When your telomeres start shortening.

EVOLUTIONIST: When you cease to be fertile.

BEHAVIOURIST: When you are paralyzed.

NEUROLOGIST: When you switch off the current.

ROMANTIC: When you are rejected.

PHYSICALIST: When you orgasm.

RELIGIONIST/FAIRY TALEIST: Never.

FASHIONIST: Every new season.

 

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: death, Aging, birth.

top

posted on 2010-10-29 16:41:04 | Report abuse


The last word is ...

the place where you ask questions about everyday science

Answer questions, vote for best answers, send your videos and audio questions, save favourite questions and answers, share with friends...

register now


ADVERTISMENT