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Do we know the thermodynamic ballance of planets (separatelyq not in general)?

Earth, for instance - does it emit more energy than it receives from solar wind?

I found this article today and there is a statement that planets are generally giving away more than they get, in energy terms. I'm not sure if it's meant to be read in general context though.

 

So... do we calculate the thermodynamic properties of the planets in that manner? Are there 'hot' and 'cold' planets? Is this property significantly related to star proximity and is there a general trend?*

 

*I suspect the answer of the last question is - 'yes, they all get colder, due to enthropy'. But still, what do you think?

 

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  • Asked by hugolabs
  • on 2010-11-11 08:50:26
  • Member status
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Categories: Our universe, Planet Earth.

Tags: thermodynamics, Planets.

 

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Jon-Richfield says:

 

Why "solar wind"? It receives more from solar radiation.

In general one expects any planet to reach equilibrium at a particular temperature where it radiates on average nearly exactly what it receives from the sun (from both the solar wind and the radiation).

However, there are complications and I don't know all the complications.

For a start, any other source of energy contributing to ts temperature will add to the rate at which it radiates, such that at equilibrium it radiates as much as it receives, and then that will (perhaps very slightly) exceed the solar input.

So what are the other sources?

For many of them, such as Earth, tidal forces cause internal friction. So we receive a surprising amount from the moon.  Some of the larger moons of the larger planets, in particular Jupiter and Saturn, get really churned up by their tidal forces (consider Io with her volcanos  & Europa with her cracks) part of such energy goes into physical rearrangements of the matter on the planet, but eventually most of it gets radiated.

Then there is the continuous gravitational compaction of the planet; for instance the Earth still is radiating energy from the solidification of its central iron core and from the closing of pore spaces and changing of hydration and crystallisation states in its mantle and crust. Practically every major body is still doing that, even though it is a small factor in most cases, unless there has been a recent major collision.

Don't forget radioactivity inside the planet. It will be a long time before we stop radiating our internal fission energy.

Impacts from outer space, everything from cosmic particles and rays to meteoric dust, large bodies, and starlight gets absorbed and reradiated.

If there happen to be any ecological systems or any vermin on the planet burning chemical stores of reducing and oxidising substances, the energy released will also be radiated, sometimes with considerable delays.  Sometimes such radiation is highly atypical, for example, though Earth is a fairly cool body when regarded as a black body, in some of its long-wave radiation emitted by industrial processes, we look like a glowing hot body.

So, as I said, there can be many sources (notionally temporary) of excess heat from most planets, though the excess is relatively small on planets anywhere near the sun.

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Tags: thermodynamics, Planets.

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posted on 2010-11-11 14:07:13 | Report abuse


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robertinventor says:

Heat is generated in the Earth's core through radioactive decay. This effect amounts to about  30 TW with total heat loss of 42 terrawatts (since core is also cooling down)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_gradient#Heat_sources

Also through tidal interaction of the Earth with the Moon, the Earth's day gets longer. Some of this energy is transferred to the Moon, with the result that the Month gets longer and the Moon moves into a higher orbit. But most of the energy of the spin of the Earth gets turned to heat. This effect amounts to around  3.75 terawatts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_acceleration#Angular_momentum_and_energy

Then there's also the energy released through burning of fossil fuels by humans, this effect amounts to about 12 terrawatts per hear

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_resources_and_consumption

There is also some energy input from meteorite impacts and other minor inputs e.g. cosmic rays etc.

All of this is in excess over the heat from the sun, so just to keep at the same temperature, there needs to be a net loss of heat from the Earth. 

Compared with the total input from solar energy of 174,000 terrawatts the excess is small for the Earth.

See also 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_energy_budget

Similar considerations (apart from the fossil fuels of course) apply to other planets.

Another source of heat which can be significant for some planets is the gravitational  separation of the internal components.

For the gas giants, the excess heat over solar input is much more significant than for the Earth. The excess heat generated internally may exceed the amount received from the sun.

Jupiter and Saturn may be heated partly by "Helium rain" condensing out of a mixture of helium and hydrogen under conditions of very high temperature and pressure - happens when the planet cools down sufficiently for them to separate.

Here is a recent paper about it:

http://www.physorg.com/news152208969.html

The case of Neptune is a particular puzzle, as it radiates about 2.61 times as much heat as it receives from the sun.  Some of the excess might be due to the conversion of Methane to other hydrocarbons or diamonds releasing heat. The idea is that the excess hydrogen rises, the diamonds or longer chain hydrocarbons fall towards the core, and this gravitational separation generates heat. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune#Internal_heat

That's in addition to the radioactive decay, internal heat of formation, and tidal heating etc. which don't seem to be enough by themselves to explain the observations.

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posted on 2010-11-15 06:45:05 | Report abuse


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