Advanced search

Answers


Can water evaporate through plastic?

I keep two PET bottles filled with tap water. As I don't intend to use the water unboiled anyway, I hardly ever refill them. Mostly I use them as weights for some fitness training (like dumbells). But once when the water was turned off I actually used water from one of the bottles and refilled it afterwards. Now in comparison with this newly-filled bottle I see that the old one has lost some water. No air has come in instead of it, but the bottle has become a bit floppy. I understand that water molecules are smaller than most molecules in the air, so it is understandable there might be pores through which it can evaporate and nothing comes in to replace it. But are these pores in the bottle or lid itself or does the vapour go through between bottle and lid?

sssss
 (no votes)

submit an answer
  • Member status
  • none

Categories: Domestic Science.

Tags: water, pet, vapour.

 

Report abuse


21 answer(s)


Reply

Jon-Richfield says:

This is very much the kind of question that I refer to and defer to Georg. 

It is likely (though uncertain) that your bottles are polyethylene terephthalate or possibly polycarbonate. Although both those substances are thoroughly water resistant, it may be that they permit a little diffusion.

Of course, jumping to conclusions tends to be terminal. I have a suspicion that the problem might rest rather with the bottles' seal then with their walls.

Any opinions anybody?

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: water, pet, vapour.

top

posted on 2010-12-02 14:30:21 | Report abuse

Reply

translatrix says:

It says on the bottles that they are PET.

It says nothing on the caps.

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: water, pet, vapour.

top

posted on 2010-12-02 15:41:02 | Report abuse

Reply

Jon-Richfield says:

Oh yes! As usual I did not properly absorb the question; sorry!

Well, scratch the polycarbonate idea; the PET comment stands, and so does the bright idea of waiting for a ore informed comment!  :-)

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: water, pet, vapour.

top

posted on 2010-12-02 16:20:33 | Report abuse

Reply

Georg says:

Hello Jon,

any "plastic" permits some diffusion of gases.

Because of water molecules smaller molecular

weight (compared to nitrogen/oxygen) water

vapour will diffuse faster that air throug the plastic.

So because more water vapour diffuses outward

of Your bottle as air diffuses inward, the bolltle will

deflate. But beware! The influence of temperature

on the partial vapour pressure is very strong!

To get meaningful results, You have to have the

temperature in the bottle constant within some

tenths of a degree.

This diffusion depends on the number and dimension

of microscopic voids in the plastic.

Rather high diffusion rates one finds for hardened

plastics (eg. Bakelite) and for rubber. 

(Much to the disappointment of children, deflating their

helum-filled balloons)

For thermoplastics like PE, or PET diffusion is

is less, but not zero.

Georg

PS

there are some new (to me) sort of balloons sold on fairs

in Germany since some years, evidently not made from rubbery material.

They are fused from two or more pieces of plastic foil,

maybe PET (my guess) and the foil looks like metallized.

I think the idea is to block the outward diffusion of helium

as much as possible.

 

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: water, pet, vapour.

top

posted on 2010-12-02 22:17:40 | Report abuse


Reply

Angelar says:

 

What temperature was the bottle? The bottle might have the same volume of water as before and be floppy because the air inside is at a lower temperature than it was at when the bottle was being filled, so that the air shrinks and compresses. If this is the case, the bottle will have the same mass as when filled.

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: water, pet, vapour.

top

posted on 2010-12-02 20:22:19 | Report abuse

Reply

translatrix says:

No, there is very little air in the bottles, I filled them as full as I could.

Of course, water also shrinks a bit when it's cold (if not under plus four), and it IS quite cold even indoors at the moment, but that would affect the second bottle too, because it too was filled when it was warmer.

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: water, pet, vapour.

top

posted on 2010-12-03 06:36:17 | Report abuse


Reply

ecstatist says:

adding to what georg noted

"plastics" vary greatly in their "holiness" - note that in food and other products that have to maintain "crispiness" or a set moisture level, that they are packaged in simply cellophane or other plastics that have been coated (flashed) with aluminium. (potato chips/crisps, cigarettes etc)

In fact most plastics are holy enough to allow largish molecules through (eg you can smell cannabinoids through polyethylene, but not through cellophane or tukey roasting bags)

In extremis (excluding "perfect" crystals of small atoms not being permeable to larger atoms/molecules) everything is permeable to everything.

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: water, pet, vapour.

top

posted on 2010-12-03 15:26:40 | Report abuse

Reply

Georg says:

Hello ecstatist

an addendum to "cellophane":

Pure cellophane is very permeable to water, when wetted it 

becomes limp.

For that reason cellophane for packaging got a thin coat

of nitrocellulose clear laquer.

But: is there some cellophane still in use? Here in Germany

cellophane seams to be outdated. There is a special kind of HDPE which

now is used to have that "crispy" touch, even on cigarette packages.

Georg

 

 

sssss
 (no votes)

Tags: water, pet, vapour.

top

posted on 2010-12-04 13:14:42 | Report abuse


The last word is ...

the place where you ask questions about everyday science

Answer questions, vote for best answers, send your videos and audio questions, save favourite questions and answers, share with friends...

register now


ADVERTISMENT