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If life developed on a planet which wasnt very rich in iron what could could be used as a suitable subsitute for it? And would this difference in metal restrict these lifeforms to any constraints??

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LokiNight says:

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An iron-poor planet would have no magnetic field generated by a molten iron core. So non-marine surface life would have to adapt to a high level of cosmic rays unless the planet had a very deep atmosphere

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Life [as we know it] is mostly composed of these six elements:

Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Sulphur and Phosphorus

But, other elements are required in trace amounts to serve vital cell functions. However trace elements can be substituted ~ eg arthropods & molluscs use copper instead of iron for carrying oxygen [see below]

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'Normal' Earth blood uses iron to achieve an exceptionally high capacity for carrying oxygen. This depends on reversibly with oxygen, picking it up in a lung/gill and transporting it to the cells before letting it go

Haemoglobin (Hb) combines with oxygen at the high partial pressures found within the respiratory organ & then releases it at the comparatively low pressure found within cells. It is the most efficient oxygen-carrier known.

Haemocyanin (a molecule based on copper) is used by various molluscs and arthropods. It's only about 25% as efficient as haemoglobin at carrying oxygen. An active alien animal using copper might be possible on planets with high surface pressures & plenty of oxygen. Vanadium Chromagen, is found in sea squirts. Manganese forms a carrier in the blood of the mollusc Pinna squamosa

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My conclusion is that on an iron-poor planet...

Non-marine, multicellular, animal life would be a sluggish :) affair unless the atmosphere was oxygen-rich & at a higher surface pressure than on Earth today

Also on such a planet it would be more 'expensive' to feed brains with oxygen

 

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I've only discussed iron in relation to the blood, I know that animals rely heavily on iron for other cell processes & also for ligaments for example. I don't know how well other trace elements would work instead of iron for these other processes

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Michael

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posted on 2011-01-24 04:06:28 | Report abuse


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Jon-Richfield says:

For such a vague end speculative question it is hardly surprising that Michael and I should differ in some respects in our replies. For a start, I do not believe that a planet such as Earth is likely to be deficient in iron; meaning that rocky remnants of supernova explosions are likely to be iron-rich.

 

But, very well, it is theoretically possible even for such a planet to have an iron core, but very little iron in the crust. Whether it is plausible that there would be too little iron to support biochemistry resembling ours, is another matter, but at least such a planet with a molten iron core could plausibly have a decent magnetosphere.

 

This said, I do not believe for one moment that on a rocky planet with an atmosphere as thick as ours, our magnetosphere is of much radical biological significance at all. It is a navigational convenience for many species, and conceivably some would die out in its absence, but I doubt that such effects would be common. As for its importance in protection from extra-planetary radiation and particles, that sounds to me like so much hooey. I even am sceptical about its robbing us of a significant atmosphere.

 

Now, suppose some wizard suddenly robbed our planet of practically all its iron less than 10 km deep, the consequences would be extreme and disastrous. All higher forms of life (by "higher", I do not mean everything from soccer-fans up, but everything from most bacteria up) would die very rapidly indeed. Practically all evolution more recent than say, our first billion years would be to do again, and I cannot promise that it would work at all without iron.

 

In short, like it would be a serious bummer man, with like no one to care.

 

On the other hand, if a large variety of other transition elements were available (this is implausible on a planet with out much iron, but still never mind that) it is quite conceivable that a range of elements such as vanadium, chrome, manganese, cobalt, nickel, copper, zinc, ruthenium, molybdenum, tungsten, or palladium could serve similar functions, and perhaps a lot of others as well.

 

This is the purest thumb-suck, please note. It is quite possible that the reason life on our planet is so iron-dependent, is not that it is present in our crust, but rather that it is so plentiful and in fact ubiquitous. That being so, as I suspect, it is likely that those other elements could only have filled such universal roles if they too had occurred universally on the planet, and in suitable forms at that. Not all of them are very active enough under many circumstances to represent promising prospects.

 

Even assuming that on a planet starting from scratch life could become established on a biochemistry indifferent to iron, but rich in other transition elements, it does not follow that such a biochemistry would closely resemble our own. In fact it does not even follow that life on other, more typically iron-rich planets, the biochemistry closely resembles our own. It might very well, superficially anyway, and working on identical basic principles, but in a matter like this the devil in the details would have an embarrassment of choice.

 

Such considerations are part of the reason why I regard most science-fiction, and all science-fiction films that I have seen so far, with considerable contempt for their level of either creativity or competence, let alone sophistication in the alien life-forms they present.

 

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posted on 2011-01-24 09:14:57 | Report abuse


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Georg says:

@ Loki,

the lack of  magnetic field can't be a real problem,

our earth looses the field every 200 000 years

for some time (some thousand Years presumably)

during those "flips" of the magnetic field.

@ Jon,

I assist all You wrote, just some extra: squids (sepia) 

use copper as a central ion in that "ink" maybe in theír

blood as well?

Georg

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posted on 2011-01-24 21:45:48 | Report abuse


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Jon-Richfield says:

Hi Georg,

>squids (sepia) use copper as a central ion in that "ink" maybe in theír blood as well?<

You rather took me aback there.

First the easy bit. The Cephalopoda and many other Mollusca (and Arthropoda) do in fact use haemocyanin (certain proteins holding Cu atoms in association with histidine residues; I suspect that the Cu forms complexes with the N or NH groups; The Cu is said to alternate between the +1 and +2 oxidation states in attaching to the oxygen, but I suspect that the real operation is a little more subtle, much as in the Fe++ vs. Fe+++ resonance in haemoglobin. But I really don't know.) And of course, the haemocyanin is in the blood.  In its oxidised form it gives the blood a visibly bluish colour. Interestingly, it occurs as a free solution in the animals' blood, not locked up into specialist cells like haemoglobin in vertebrate corpuscles. There are advantages both ways, but the vertebrate system is better adapted to fine control and large volume oxygen transport and storage.

Now the tricky bit. I had always thought that sepia (the ink; there is a genus of cuttlefish called sepia. Confusingly however, the Greek "sepia" was (probably still is)  the word for cuttlefish, but in English nowadays sepia usually refers to the actual ink, or to the colour of octopus or cuttlefish ink, which actually has been used in writing and art, as I suspect you know)...  But I digress. I had meant to say that I had thought that the ink was melanin; squirting a copper-based pigment seemed a bit extravagant; copper is even rarer in seawater than Fe is! Still,  it was conceivable that some nice, astringent copper might repel certain predators. But you don't prove a negative by never having heard of something, so I had to go exploring. a bit.

I found no support for Cu in the sepia whatever; it seems that my original sources were correct, and that the colour of sepia ink is indeed melanin, though the total constitution is a good deal more complex, and it application is a good deal more complex than one might have expected as well. (That is living biology for you!!!)

Anyway, the upshot is: blood -- yes;  Sepia -- not really.

Thanks for driving me to clarify that!

Cheers,

 

Jon

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posted on 2011-01-25 07:22:30 | Report abuse

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Georg says:

Hello Jon,

I do not remember, where or when I learned about that.

This means, it likely was long ago, :=(

Maybe school.

Georg

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posted on 2011-01-25 18:19:20 | Report abuse

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Georg says:

Hello Jon,

guess what I read some minutes ago! This:

Schnecken benötigen für zentrale Stoffwechselvorgänge das Spurenelement Kupfer. So enthält zum Beispiel ihr Atmungsprotein Hämocyanin Kupfer und nicht Eisen, wie etwa beim Menschen. Schneckenblut ist daher nicht rot, sondern hellblau.

found here:

http://www.scinexx.de/wissen-aktuell-12888-2011-01-25.html

It is about snails blood, blue, not red and it contains: copper!

Of course You know, that snails are members of the same "family",

like squids and shells. (Do shells have blood at all? :=)

Regards,

Georg

 

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posted on 2011-01-25 21:06:28 | Report abuse


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